yol i numb j . are now extending their tr.xation to another part the e.vcife on which rfcfourccs the hate creditors principal ly depended gongrefs aie bound injullice and equity to provide for the payment di th'efe debts contracted at the requefl and lor the benefit or the uniteu slate they are bona tide debts of the union and only dif fer from the federal liquidated debt in the form of the riegoclution ; perhup it m;»y be laid that the cre dilriib liaving conhdered the dates as debtors have no legal claim againlt t!:e united states but lhould congrefs aft ujjon inch an unjult and ungenerous principle would not the ttate creditors have reaion to coniidcr the whole lisa lute trick or juggle to befrauo them o their dues ? and would they ever alter re ly on the faith of cong rcjs ? there can be no good reafon then for the ailenicn that the ftates can only be creditors or in other words that their debts can , be only auhrhed according to the proponions of the balances that may be due to them relpeihvely on a final liquidation mr gerry faid the p.cntleman mr white had obferved ha < - by adopting the firlt ' amendment we lhould again open the door for ftate claims ; that if ; t hould remain ihut perhaps fome in juilice uould lake place but if the doors fliould again be opened there would be grei'.t unealinel's among lome of the ftaies in anfwer to this mr gerry con ctived that the itatcs cpnlidered juilice as the bads of their fyliem of policy and would never be oppofad to a m.'iifure that would prevent injullice jf however he was millikon in this point — if the fodrraations of the ihitc and fedetal government were not laid in juf ' tice he tjmnght tfieir career world be but fhovl ; but he had no apprchenfions of this kind he obferved that mr white had faid in cafe of ah alfumption fo<he rate creditors niay accede to it and others mu ; that of the ltter number would pro . b.ii;i be the citi/.ens of virginia in which c ife lie molt pay her own creditors and conti iln::e to the pay merit or the debts alfumed by the union but where is the disunity fays mr gevry in this c.tlc ? con gref 1 ., conl'ufering ihe hate creditors of virginia a creditors of the union will provide for them as for oilier federal creditors and it will make do differ ence to the creditors to the ftate or to congtels whether the latter pays the inrerc tn the hate and the itate to ihe creditors or whether congrefs pays . it directly to the creditors this feems too cleai to bedenicd the gentleman has faid if the debts are a/turned cpngrefi will fund but not difcharge them ; whereas the itates will do both how liiys mr gerry does it appear that congrefiwill be lets difpofed than the ftates to pay off the public debt r the fecretary in . his report has an eye to a finking fund ; and there is no doubt of every exertion on the part of the union to difcharge the debt true it is the ihtcs with the im poft and etcife have made fr.me progrefs in thi buff nefs ; but deprived o thofc refources there will be let's profpeft of the debts being paid by the ftates than by the united states the debts of the itatcs wiii now accumulate as the federal debt did whilil the ftates had thole refourpes the gehtlernan fays that if all the revenue tmm irn pofl and excife is thrown into our hands it wiil - o be adequate ind we mufl refort to ilirect taxes « hi h would meet the difappi-obalton of all the liat.s but in anf-vcr tot'ip mr gerry obferved that ve lave had but little experience of the avails of th import and none of the excife and can therefore form no jiidgrhentfliow-'far urpy are capable of improvement ' one thing we hnoav thnt the in-poft is pfreatly injured by the itate ndminiftration of excife and we alfo know that the latter is eluded in i great meafurs in ear 1 flale ; fo that under the federal adininillraiion of itn poft and ex<:i!'e both would probably be much increaf el mr gerry then mentioned the defalcations of cx cife ; that the cn!l ( flinn ofit was generally fuj | ofed in mallachufetts not to exceed 2 per cent ol what ought to be the amount and ftatcd the manner in which the payment of it was eluded it is irnpoffible therefore fays he at this time to determine whether thofe refpilrces are or are not equal to tbe funds re quired eutlnppnie they are not how does it appear that the ftates will be oneafy at direfl taxation if it is neceflary to fuppbrt public en dit i crmfider public credit as the m.nin pillar of the fovfrnmenf if \\ is well eftablilhed it will he mort'y-ajuable than the minis of veru ; for it will command what refources you mav want — and thofc can do no move : it will alfo command the confidence and attachment of year hell citizens which will be infinitely more vaiuabje — will vr_engtheh your government and maieil anmoveable a government founded in ullice is fo great a bleltirig as that enlightened citizebsj like thofe of the united states will not only contribute tlirir property btit will rhjc everything in fupport ofiiich a goyerrtrnent . miurs may cnnble a government to procure an arrr cf nicrceiii'.;ics ; bu lhepo-.vcr o tkcfc is not to le " compared with that r»f gdod citizens ■ "' j vrp pi . . j ciple it cannot therefore be double ii ilir - taxes are neceh'ary to pay thejiilt debts p he unit ' and tofupporj its credit the citizens v ill lulmk it if we refer to the rrcpofitions df the ftates ■(• rftnending the conftitutlon hefe is nothing in the that jullities die contrary iupjolition ; but 1 lhalj ■ always oppofed to direct ta.\cs till it ihatl appear ti they arc indifpcnfibly neceflkry 1 he fc'endeman iu : poles that the affur.-.pl.cn will lelfen the inllucnce « the dates anu civ...l th general government and hi qii.itl my bbfervati'dn that the ttates uut of deb would be out of danger : and not as geiulemen i the op'ppfitioti conceited in debt but ot danger t coutute this uocliine the gentleman has itattd a cad v and fays if owning an e!hne he dwed money on i . he hould think it more fa;e to take thecilate iilto lit • own hands ind'pay his debts with its inconres that i to mortgage his eltate to another on his engaging it pay the debt — but mr gerry obferved that tht re fourc for paying the flate debts are taken from theim and the quelliori in the cafe ftaied is whe'her thi owner of an elbte v ho owed debts on it would nov expea ih.it the peirfon who occflpied it fliruld with th<l incomes pay the debts of the eihue rather th.-.n ieavo the owner to pay them in the 1 ' cafe of a minor ought mi his.;.;mar<.lian who receives the incomes of an eilitte k pay the minor's dt.lit tnj riot to apply ihe tnoomrs to his own tile vliilll the debts are ncpu muiating m'ich had been laid refpechrg part f the itate delits being foxfiatt and not ot/ftkfth pntpofes : but would any gentleman deny that h moll u whole expenrlinircs of the hates excep'inir the expenecs of their civi g6veyhment wefe l^r federal pujpoies or that the tan s of the kates hnd far eveccded the civil lift&and other expency fthefta'es is it nut evident then that the exillmg ( ehf of the ttates mult be far fhort of their heraands again ft ihe ynittd sta'es for iippliesfumilhed by tnttr citizens and where is he force of thisbbje&ion ? it a.s heen urged hy anotner jentleman from virginte mr moore fhat an af mimptiim is iinronflitutional helms mentioned the ici-nimts of that ita'e which contnimi flau and fe tleral charges obliged the kate to dllviiminate be tween them but how does this prove the uncorfli tutionality of the mc;«fure ? tl.e debts of tie lutcs are either debts of the union or not ; if not we have node/ire to alliinie them ; ifth-yva'e w tli it un x to avoid payment becaufe of the too n wliich hey have been h^gociatcd ; and we conceivt ii is fuf htiendy evijent thai the cvi ling ftate dfh:s are for lie property or feivices of indi.'itiiuls rcceivcil bj he union but luppofe we flioutd refofe to i 0'uine the itate dens will norths injtired creditors of the dates e forevfr.ojjpoled to ymii governn ent { will they not co 1 derthis mea'ure expltunedasttvcill.be in jie progreftpttbedebarfa as a iajear : ficf rn defsa'ua thefh oi their property ? for althionj h lie integrity of the honourable fnover is nnqtic-ll oiiable y<t if hir pr-po/ition whnn exatnsned lia-i the leivler.cy ppirrtd out it wjlmf adopted beconcdered as nrfificf tk ftate creditor in a conimon caufe will probably not c nlme ihe-r oppofition to hcchleciion of f der'.i ex cil'e but will extend it to the import which will be c infvdered as an qiijufli alienation of the fl.tta ftmcls to pay the federal at rteexpence bfthe fi-aie creditor suvnpojrc infteadd p'tsimoting p^ace end'eoncord v ill be k frnrca ftf war and dtfeord i'tween the dif f'-rent clallvs oi'citi'o s bv the t'niied statps for tb/efe and other rt afors thai may be in cvd mr gerry hoped the prpipofitton would hc.rcjectted infr aliyertt'ore was of the fume optntn-rt n kfri white th.it c ngrefi fh i.u affiihif only l\u debts s were owir by the ates over and above tlirir jnft proportion of the expences of the war in ftnj,ing nmti general obfervations in objecting to the original pr petition he f;i : d it was had policy to p.y mrney ki ft and then fettle b acc unt autiwards peal ways likeil lofoc arconms tirfl fettled and then tha mnjiey paid it ippf;>«ed il'-anjreio riim.how an in dividual rj h nn'ion deeply in dvbt could railo thoir credit by ili'mniiur to pay ths dclns of others i'he afliimption of he ftate debts would injure t!-c iridivt ■ dnals who werecrfiditors-r-they bad tri.tfted the ihuc and conp-iefs ikui no ii<'lu o interfere in uiefe con tr:i(5>s asfor his part lie fhouki thank no man for taking his effclfe onl of his hand to pav hi 1 '•••> ■■- he fliouli ia her handle the money himfetf wi'li rlfpea to the niavim om of rtcbt out of riaiiger l.e thoupfhil i went iigaintr the ineafiire ; then going ih to debt was going into danger \ and wotild nt>i gen t'emen have the lane concern for the general s i<ir the fiatc government and why^rnn the general government into danger when there was no need of ii ? soirie rirther cohveihation took place r>n he fuh iei mlicn thecommiiuc role wiuioui coding to a de cifioo congress or the united states house of representatives february 24 a memorial of thonus barclay was rea3 and commuted a memorial of n gore was read and referred to the fecretary at w.;r a memorial of xjavid s.franks was read and laid on the table theh')iife refolded itfelf into a committee on the report of the fecretary of the treafury mr benfon in ihe ci:-iir the propofition for the aiiuir;ption of the ft'ate debts being under conlideration ijome debate took place on this propofition when mr madifon moved for an amendment to the follow ing purport — that effectual provision be at the lame time made for the liquidation of and crediting to tlte dates the whole of the expences during the war as the fame jlias been or may be ft.ned for that pnrppfe that the beft evidence of the fame be taken that the nature of the cafe will admit the committee role without deciding on the propo fition or the amendment february 2 several petitions weie read . . . the bill to provide for the enumeration of the inha bitants of the united states was b ought in cngfoiied when the fpcaker ligned die fame the bill fohecunng to authors and inventors the exclusive right of fejjing copies of their writings and inventions was reac a lecond time and con rrit rd the hrufe then refolved itfelf into a v rr.nii.icc on the report of the fecretary of the treafmy rel.ii.ive to a provifion for the fupport of the public credit of the united states ... mr tjenfon in the chair the proportion relative to the ad'umption of the ftate debts and the amendment propofed thereto by mr majiibn being ftill under confutation mr huntington hated fi.riie objections to the laft part of the amendment priipofed by mr madifon which declares " that the beft evidence fhall be taken ■ as the nature of the cafe will admit there was no neceflity he faid f of drawing fuch a rule iirto prece dent and if there were any paiticular cafes fuch as the lofs of vouchers c that required lcgillative interfeienccrcongrefs could always make a.provilion for the purpofe mr v/hite then rofe and propofed hn amendment to this efte.fi — that only the balances due by the itares over and above the quota required of them lor the common defence fliould be aififmed by congrcfs mr gerry in a fpeeclj of fome length enm batted the principle on which the motion was founded — it contemplated he faid the debts in qucf tion as the debts of the dates while in fuel they were the debts of the united states ; for the ftate had con trafted tho debts as agents of the union — and it w:is veil known that a debt contracted by an agent was as binding as though it b«d been done by the princi pal it iseing an eftablilhed maxim " quod fact p:r dltcritmfadt per /?>" there can be no diflinftion in equi ty then between a debt contracted by cdngrefs its quarter-mailers or other purchaling officers and by a ftatc employed by congrcfs ; the creditors in ear n cafe being the creditors of the union mr gerry faid he had before dated that the hill army although federal was railed fuppovted and fupplied by the dates till it was commanded by continental officers j that the ftaus on the requilitions of congrefs lind nude good the depreciation of$hep*ay of the arrny — had frequently fupplied and recruited it hail at the requell of congrefs affuhttd ihe debts of the union by taking up certilic atcs of pmchafes mad by federal officers by paying mtereft of the federal debt and by various other modes and one ftate 1'ennfylvania if he was n<u mifinformed had a/turned to the amount of five million dollars of the federal debt due to her ci'i/.ens and placed thisfum on the itate funds as the hates then are indebted to their citizens ought not thefe in equity to he paid by the united states for pro perty thus fupplied them ? when the citizens credited ■ the rates the latter had all the resources of the uni on ; they had the import excise and fole right of di rc.'t taxation ; for although congrefs bad not the pow er of taxing flater they vcould go no farther and that power could not be onerctfed from the want of a ride o apportionment required by the confederation be cauie thy lutes could not form an cftimate of their property is required by that com padt : it mnlt there fore l>e evident as rhe citizens entruftsd the antes wtchfuppliesforthe u.nion on the credit of certain ftate refources and by the late revolution jn the fyf tem of government wiefe refourccs are l-y the nr.ion part alienate from th . hates to the federal govern meat which is jic cue of the impolt j and m congicft monday may 10 1790 the north-carolina chronicle ; or fayettevlile gazett